Discussion:
Union built bridge collapses in NW Wash.; people in water
(too old to reply)
Charles M. Dunn
2013-05-24 05:43:34 UTC
Permalink
MOUNT VERNON, WASH. An Interstate 5 bridge over a river north of
Seattle collapsed Thursday evening, dumping vehicles and people
into the water, the Washington State Patrol said.

The four-lane bridge over the Skagit River collapsed about 7
p.m., Trooper Mark Francis said. There was no immediate estimate
of how many people were in the water or whether there were any
injuries or deaths, he said.

It also was not known what caused the collapse of the bridge
about 60 miles north of Seattle in Skagit County, which
stretches from the North Cascades National Park to a cluster of
islands off the Washington coast.

Xavier Grospe, 62, who lives near the river, said he could see
three cars with what appeared to be one person per vehicle. The
vehicles were sitting still in the water, partially submerged
and partly above the waterline, and the apparent drivers were
sitting either on top of the vehicles or on the edge of open
windows.

"It doesn't look like anybody's in danger right now," Grospe
said.

Helicopter footage aired by KOMO-TV in Seattle showed several
rescue boats at the bridge collapse scene with several
ambulances waiting on the shore. One rescue boat left the scene
with one person strapped into a stretcher.

A damaged red car and a damaged pickup truck were visible in the
water, which appeared so shallow it barely reached the top of
the car's hood.

Crowds of people lined the river to watch the scene unfold.

The bridge is not considered structurally deficient but is
listed as being "functionally obsolete" — a category meaning
that their design is outdated, such as having narrow shoulders
are low clearance underneath, according to a database compiled
by the Federal Highway Administration.

The bridge was built in 1955 and has a sufficiency rating of
57.4 out of 100, according to federal records. That is well
below the statewide average rating of 80, according to an
Associated Press analysis of federal data, but 759 bridges in
the state have a lower sufficiency score.

According to a 2012 Skagit County Public Works Department, 42 of
the county's 108 bridges that are 50 years or older. The
document says eight of the bridges are more than 70 years old
and two are over 80.

Washington state was given a C in the American Society of Civil
Engineers' 2013 infrastructure report card and a C- when it came
to the state's bridges. The group said more than a quarter of
Washington's 7,840 bridges are considered structurally deficient
of functionally obsolete.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57586023/i-5-bridge-
collapses-in-nw-wash.-people-in-water/
Jerry
2013-05-24 16:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles M. Dunn
MOUNT VERNON, WASH. An Interstate 5 bridge over a river north of
Seattle collapsed Thursday evening, dumping vehicles and people
into the water, the Washington State Patrol said.
The four-lane bridge over the Skagit River collapsed about 7
p.m., Trooper Mark Francis said. There was no immediate estimate
of how many people were in the water or whether there were any
injuries or deaths, he said.
It also was not known what caused the collapse of the bridge
about 60 miles north of Seattle in Skagit County, which
stretches from the North Cascades National Park to a cluster of
islands off the Washington coast.
Xavier Grospe, 62, who lives near the river, said he could see
three cars with what appeared to be one person per vehicle. The
vehicles were sitting still in the water, partially submerged
and partly above the waterline, and the apparent drivers were
sitting either on top of the vehicles or on the edge of open
windows.
"It doesn't look like anybody's in danger right now," Grospe
said.
Helicopter footage aired by KOMO-TV in Seattle showed several
rescue boats at the bridge collapse scene with several
ambulances waiting on the shore. One rescue boat left the scene
with one person strapped into a stretcher.
A damaged red car and a damaged pickup truck were visible in the
water, which appeared so shallow it barely reached the top of
the car's hood.
Crowds of people lined the river to watch the scene unfold.
The bridge is not considered structurally deficient but is
listed as being "functionally obsolete" — a category meaning
that their design is outdated, such as having narrow shoulders
are low clearance underneath, according to a database compiled
by the Federal Highway Administration.
The bridge was built in 1955 and has a sufficiency rating of
57.4 out of 100, according to federal records. That is well
below the statewide average rating of 80, according to an
Associated Press analysis of federal data, but 759 bridges in
the state have a lower sufficiency score.
According to a 2012 Skagit County Public Works Department, 42 of
the county's 108 bridges that are 50 years or older. The
document says eight of the bridges are more than 70 years old
and two are over 80.
Washington state was given a C in the American Society of Civil
Engineers' 2013 infrastructure report card and a C- when it came
to the state's bridges. The group said more than a quarter of
Washington's 7,840 bridges are considered structurally deficient
of functionally obsolete.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57586023/i-5-bridge-
collapses-in-nw-wash.-people-in-water/
Typical union work. Compare it to American cars. All junk.
pyotr filipivich
2013-05-24 20:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry
Post by Charles M. Dunn
MOUNT VERNON, WASH. An Interstate 5 bridge over a river north of
Seattle collapsed Thursday evening, dumping vehicles and people
into the water, the Washington State Patrol said.
The four-lane bridge over the Skagit River collapsed about 7
p.m., Trooper Mark Francis said. There was no immediate estimate
of how many people were in the water or whether there were any
injuries or deaths, he said.
It also was not known what caused the collapse of the bridge
about 60 miles north of Seattle in Skagit County, which
stretches from the North Cascades National Park to a cluster of
islands off the Washington coast.
[snip]
Post by Jerry
Typical union work. Compare it to American cars. All junk.
Are you sure that Global Warming was not involved?

Maybe a Tea partiers was driving those car?

Oh yes. FWIW - the cause of the collapse is now reported as
damage cause by an oversized load hitting the girders.
Now, the company is Canadian, so maybe it is a result of Free
Single Payer Health Care?


tschus
pyotr

also FYI "wa.politics" Western Australia.Politics.


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
Edward A. Falk
2013-05-25 23:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry
Typical union work.
Out of curiosity, do you have any reference for this claim, or are
you just taking a random cheap shot at unions? Further, even if
union labor was used to build it, is there any evidence that the
problems were caused by the people who originally built it?

The bottom line is this: things need to be maintained. Ever
since the Reagan era, this whole country has been in a race to
the bottom. Maintaining our infrastructure has taken back
seat to making the rich richer.

A good essay on the subject:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/24/1211496/-Twilight-of-an-Empire-More-than-Just-Bridges-are-Crumbling-in-America
--
-Ed Falk, ***@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Joe Gwinn
2013-05-25 23:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Jerry
Typical union work.
Out of curiosity, do you have any reference for this claim, or are
you just taking a random cheap shot at unions? Further, even if
union labor was used to build it, is there any evidence that the
problems were caused by the people who originally built it?
The bottom line is this: things need to be maintained. Ever
since the Reagan era, this whole country has been in a race to
the bottom. Maintaining our infrastructure has taken back
seat to making the rich richer.
<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/24/1211496/-Twilight-of-an-Empire-More-than-Just-Bridges-are-Crumbling-in-America>
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.

Joe Gwinn
Martin Eastburn
2013-05-26 05:10:32 UTC
Permalink
The other problem I see is the height of the flying Beams were not
correctly labeled.

Height was measured at the centerline of the highway. A common
practice, but shows up on the arch design of structure. The center
was much taller than the sides.

There are databases and books on the highways. Those who are traffic
managers - plot loads through the roads and bridges. The books and
databases are updated from time to time.

But as here in town, a large oil load just clipped the edge of a new
bridge. The road was opened and the bridge was in the same seating
plane in the arc - but the county paved the roadbed below with a heavy
layer of tar stone used for heavy loads. Their new layer was just two
inches taller. Then when the marker was on the overhead - it was off
and wasn't measured again.

The process / procedure to measure the bridges and overpasses must
change. They must measure the lowest point in the whole side and
maybe have a height for each lane.

Likely Trucks are forced into the right hand lane unless they must pass.
so having multiple lanes or values won't help, but proper measurements
would.

Martin
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Jerry
Typical union work.
Out of curiosity, do you have any reference for this claim, or are
you just taking a random cheap shot at unions? Further, even if
union labor was used to build it, is there any evidence that the
problems were caused by the people who originally built it?
The bottom line is this: things need to be maintained. Ever
since the Reagan era, this whole country has been in a race to
the bottom. Maintaining our infrastructure has taken back
seat to making the rich richer.
<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/24/1211496/-Twilight-of-an-Empire-More-than-Just-Bridges-are-Crumbling-in-America>
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
Joe Gwinn
Joe Gwinn
2013-05-26 15:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Eastburn
The other problem I see is the height of the flying Beams were not
correctly labeled.
Height was measured at the centerline of the highway. A common
practice, but shows up on the arch design of structure. The center
was much taller than the sides.
There are databases and books on the highways. Those who are traffic
managers - plot loads through the roads and bridges. The books and
databases are updated from time to time.
But as here in town, a large oil load just clipped the edge of a new
bridge. The road was opened and the bridge was in the same seating
plane in the arc - but the county paved the roadbed below with a heavy
layer of tar stone used for heavy loads. Their new layer was just two
inches taller. Then when the marker was on the overhead - it was off
and wasn't measured again.
The process / procedure to measure the bridges and overpasses must
change. They must measure the lowest point in the whole side and
maybe have a height for each lane.
Likely Trucks are forced into the right hand lane unless they must pass.
so having multiple lanes or values won't help, but proper measurements
would.
Martin
Yes. This expensive little episode may be the motivating factor.

Joe Gwinn
Post by Martin Eastburn
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Jerry
Typical union work.
Out of curiosity, do you have any reference for this claim, or are
you just taking a random cheap shot at unions? Further, even if
union labor was used to build it, is there any evidence that the
problems were caused by the people who originally built it?
The bottom line is this: things need to be maintained. Ever
since the Reagan era, this whole country has been in a race to
the bottom. Maintaining our infrastructure has taken back
seat to making the rich richer.
<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/24/1211496/-Twilight-of-an-Empire-Mo
re-than-Just-Bridges-are-Crumbling-in-America>
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
Joe Gwinn
Edward A. Falk
2013-05-26 17:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
So it was the designers who were responsible, not the laborers.
--
-Ed Falk, ***@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Joe Gwinn
2013-05-26 18:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Joe Gwinn
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
So it was the designers who were responsible, not the laborers.
Neither. This was a standard design in the 1950s. There are many such
bridges still in service.

A truck hitting a support won't break the bridge. It took a massive
pump housing at traffic speed clipping an arch near a vertical support
pillar to deliver a sufficient impact.

These bridges are slowly being replaced to upgrade carrying capacity,
et al, as money and political will accumulate.

Joe Gwinn
Ralph Y.
2013-05-27 14:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Joe Gwinn
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
So it was the designers who were responsible, not the laborers.
Neither. This was a standard design in the 1950s. There are many such
bridges still in service.
A truck hitting a support won't break the bridge. It took a massive
pump housing at traffic speed clipping an arch near a vertical support
pillar to deliver a sufficient impact.
That still seems puny to me. One bang shouldn't take down a
bridge. Look at railroad bridges. You can knock half of it
apart and it will still carry a train.
Post by Joe Gwinn
These bridges are slowly being replaced to upgrade carrying capacity,
et al, as money and political will accumulate.
Joe Gwinn
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
2013-05-27 15:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gwinn
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Joe Gwinn
Actually, none of the above: A truck carrying a large pump housing hit
one of the bridge's cross-members and broke it. The bridge, built in
the 1950s, is of a now obsolete design where fracture of any major
strength member can cause the whole span to collapse. Which it did.
So it was the designers who were responsible, not the laborers.
Neither. This was a standard design in the 1950s. There are many such
bridges still in service.
A truck hitting a support won't break the bridge. It took a massive
pump housing at traffic speed clipping an arch near a vertical support
pillar to deliver a sufficient impact.
These bridges are slowly being replaced to upgrade carrying capacity,
et al, as money and political will accumulate.
The real fault lies with the truck and Pilot Car drivers - Both of
them. Based on an eyewitness report (local trucker who was driving his
car just ahead of the whole mess) from the local NBC TV affiliate,
the Pilot Car was only 100 to 200 feet ahead of the truck.

The pilot car is supposed to be at bare minimum a quarter-mile ahead
so they can pull over and stop. A full mile is better, one off-ramp
ahead so the truck can pull off onto side streets if needed.

When the height probes on the pilot car hit the bridge, it was too
late for the truck to stop or do anything about it. Not enough time
to change lanes and get to the center lane where there was plenty of
room, till after he clipped the first few beams.

--<< Bruce >>--

Gunner Asch
2013-05-26 02:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward A. Falk
Post by Jerry
Typical union work.
Out of curiosity, do you have any reference for this claim, or are
you just taking a random cheap shot at unions? Further, even if
union labor was used to build it, is there any evidence that the
problems were caused by the people who originally built it?
The bottom line is this: things need to be maintained. Ever
since the Reagan era, this whole country has been in a race to
the bottom. Maintaining our infrastructure has taken back
seat to making the rich richer.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/24/1211496/-Twilight-of-an-Empire-More-than-Just-Bridges-are-Crumbling-in-America
Since Carter actually. Though LBJ (D) didnt do a hell of a lot except
send American kids to die in Vietnam by the thousands for no gain.


--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid® to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."
Loading...